Your most significant mission in the Far East was the liberation of allied POWs on Hainan Island. Describe that.

Intelligence that was available to the government caused them to realize that the Japanese had issued instructions to their garrisons all over the Orient that in the event of an allied landing on one of the Japanese home islands, or if they are in a position of being cut off, their instructions were to kill all of the allied prisoners of war under their control. And it told them how to do it most efficiently. So there was no question in the minds of our headquarters of what needed to be done.

I didn’t know this at the time, because I didn’t have clearance to know about the intercepts and that we had broken the Japanese code. What my wife and my sister were working on in Washington was breaking the Japanese code. But it was so classified I couldn’t know anything about it. It was called Top Secret: ULTRA.

Then I was to arrange for them to be extracted from the island and passed to their own governments. I told them that I would take that mission and that I would like to select my own team, and have authority on that.

Headquarters asked me if I would take a team and go to Hainan Island and liberate a group of prisoners known to be held there. They just couldn’t tell us why it was so important that we do this. There were originally more than 400, but by the time I got there, there were slightly less than 400, mostly Dutch and Australians. My job was to go in and take control of them. Then I was to arrange for them to be extracted from the island and passed to their own governments. I told them that I would take that mission and that I would like to select my own team, and have authority on that. I did have a Nisei with me, an absolutely fantastic officer.

 

That was unusual, because the Nisei were mostly deployed to Europe.

That is true. But the OSS had special permission to get some. They were given special training. The important thing was that the Japanese on Hainan Island had not been told that the home government was planning to surrender. When I went in there, they thought that they were taking me prisoner. And so we had a major confrontation at the drop zone [with a Japanese force led by a lieutenant]. But I refused to talk to him because he was too junior in rank.

 

You were a captain at the time, and had the temporary rank of major for this mission.

I had the temporary rank of major, that’s right. I was promoted to major later, at the end of 1946. The Japanese officer who initially met me was only a lieutenant. The next Japanese officer I met was a captain. Thank God the intelligence officer in Kunming, where I was briefed, was smart enough to tell me that I had to be a major for the mission, because the Japanese make a big distinction between field grade and company grade officers. They would have treated me the way I treated them had I arrived as a captain. I protested it at the start, but afterward was happy I was overruled.

Anyway, I told the Japanese junior officers that I would only speak to their colonel. By the time the colonel arrived, he had received word from Tokyo that the Japanese government was going to surrender. The second day, things eased up a bit and I was able to get into the POW camp and take possession of the prisoners. I asked for a hospital ship, but one wasn’t available. Everyone was asking for them. So they sent in some Australian destroyers, two of them. I was able to get some of the prisoners out, including my team, and we went to Hong Kong.

 

When you look back on your period in World War II, what was your most satisfying experience?

From the point of view of personal satisfaction, picking up those prisoners, bringing hope to them and getting them out was a great way to finish a war. I had been doing a lot of killing and destruction, and here was a real humanitarian achievement for our side.

 

Which of your post-World War II postings do you regard as the most significant?

I think the one I enjoyed most was commanding a battalion. You’re putting together all of your training. Also commanding the Studies and Observations Group in Vietnam was very, very satisfying.

Were there any operations that you participated in that you later regretted?

No. If it wasn’t correct, if it wasn’t right … if it was the least bit out of place – it’s not a question of whether it was legal or not, because you could always find a law that would make the operation illegal – I didn’t have any that I thought were improper.

 

Have you had any opportunities to observe the training of today’s special operations teams?

Yes, I have. I’ve been down to Fort Bragg a few times, been out to their training sites, and I’m really impressed with the high intelligence of the people we have today. Our armed forces are the best that we’ve ever had, the all-volunteer force. I initially opposed it, because I thought it would lose touch with the American people. But it’s turned out that, through the combination of it and the embedding of reporters in units, the American people are getting a better view of what takes place.

In the case of the Air Force, I worry about the age of the aircraft that we’re using now. We’re using our airplanes at a rapid rate – at a rate faster than [was] determined, I would imagine. And, the Air Force and the Navy need to have some significant upgrading of their main weapon systems.

And the people that we do have in uniform are so intelligent … everybody is motivated to do the right thing. You don’t have to contend, as we did, with the attitude of people who are drafted who have resistance to the military. These guys all want to do it. The equipment that they’re getting is the best in the world.

In the case of the Air Force, I worry about the age of the aircraft that we’re using now. We’re using our airplanes at a rapid rate – at a rate faster than [was] determined, I would imagine. And, the Air Force and the Navy need to have some significant upgrading of their main weapon systems.

Of course, the Army is people and we are upgrading our people by giving them greater education. It’s just amazing. Take an A-Team for instance. Many of these guys with the rank of sergeant are college graduates. It’s just a great thing to see and behold.

 

How would you compare today’s special operations teams with the men you trained and fought with, the Jedburghs?

Well, we have an all-volunteer force and that’s a great advantage. I think that the equipment that we’re providing these people is far superior to anything we had. We now have people in senior command who know what a Special Forces A-Team or a SEAL team can do. They’ve done it!

This was one of the problems we had with the Jeds. There was nobody on Gen. Dwight Eisenhower’s staff at SHAEF [Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force] who had a clue about what special operations were. No one there had any experience in it and, in fact, all of them were universal in their belief that we should not run the risk of sending a Jed team into occupied France in advance of Operation Overlord. Their belief was that the teams would be captured immediately and they’d be tortured into giving whatever information they have.

Now we have people who look for missions for our special operations forces. That’s something that didn’t happen before.

This interview was first published in The Year in Special Operations: 2008 Edition.